Last night made Day 8 for me at Summerfest and a great night of music it was! As soon as I arrived, I went over to the Rock Stage to catch The Heroes Lie. They are a Milwaukee, WI band that I had first seen at one of the Summerfest Headliner Release parties back in April. I thought they were good at a small bar and wanted to see how they performed on a larger stage. Larger venue usually means more amps and speakers and louder music. They were good and should be a band to watch in the future.
After a little walk to get some food and a couple Big Gig IPAs, I stopped at the U.S. Cellular Connection stage to check out Middle Class Rut. They have one album and their most popular song, New Low, has been playing on the radio. The music video for this song shows two guys walking down a lonely highway. What I hadn't realized was that there were only two guys in the band, a guitarist and a drummer. Wow! I was very impressed with the sound they generated. The drummer, who resembled a young Dennis Quaid, was really good. He was very energetic and played with passion. The only drawback to this band was the long intros to each song. But, I suppose if you only have one album, you need to fill up the time somehow. Certainly better than talking. After they played New Low, I headed back over to the Rock Stage to see Sevendust.
Sevendust always puts on a great show. They kill it every time. This show, however, was a bit different than previous shows I've seen. They seemed to have left something on the table. When they came our for an encore, they only played one song and were done pretty early. Morgan, the drummer, is always great to watch. I think he is one of the absolute best metal drummers out there, hands down. The guy is amazing!
Well, since Sevendust finished early, I headed over to the Miller Lite stage where the Goo Goo Dolls were playing. Stage was packed and from way back I listened to them play Iris before heading back. Then as I was walking past the U.S. Cellular Connection stage, the Crash Kings started jamming a cover of Black Sabbath's War Pigs. Awesome!! War Pigs was the theme song or war song for my high school football team my senior year. Great song! Great performance!
There are two days left of Summerfest 2011 and I'm going to both. Tonight may end up being another walkabout night. Whatever I decide to do and whichever band I see, Summerfest is always a great time!
Saturday, July 9, 2011
Friday, July 8, 2011
Three Days Left...Three Tickets Remain
Now I'm starting to feel bad about not going to Summerfest last Tuesday. Especially since I'm going the remaining three days, making for a total of 10. I'm chalking it up to a less than stellar lineup on Tuesday. Either way, 10 out of 11 is still pretty good.
Last night was a floater night. I floated from stage to stage catching several different bands. I started with Here Come the Mummies at 8pm. They were at Summerfest last year and were a lot of fun. They didn't disappoint this year either. All dressed up like mummies, they play a lot of fun songs that have adult undertones to the lyrics. Good time for sure. I didn't stay for the entire set. Instead I went over to the Rock Stage to catch a little bit of Pop Evil. I saw them a couple years ago at The Rave. They look and sound like a band lost from the 80's but maybe with a bit more of a modern metal edge. When I first walked up on the stage, the guitarist was in the middle of a long guitar solo, something you don't see often from bands nowadays. From there I went and caught the Division BMX Stunt Team. I know it's not a band, but these kids are amazing. My friends and I were into BMX trick riding and skateboarding when we were younger. Were weren't nearly as good as these kids though. Watching the show reminded me of when my friends and I used to watch and hang out with the Mountain Dew GT Trick team back in the 80's. I think we all aspired to be as good as these kids, but just didn't have it in us. Fun times for sure.
Moving on from the stunt team, I caught a few songs from Kansas, including Carry On Wayward Son. Bands like Kansas, Styx, and REO Speedwagon don't endure lengthy careers by being terrible performers. They all still put on great shows some 30 years later. After singing Carry On Wayward Son, I left to check out Michael Franti. Not necessarily my preferred type of music, but it was good. Stage was packed. Speaking of packed stages, the 102.1 stage was insanely packed with people wanting to see Edward Sharpe and teh Magnetic Zeros. I'm not even sure who they are.
I have added pictures from the last couple of days. Check out my earlier posts for the link.
Tonight is a flip of the coin night. Do I see Dropkick Murphys? Do I see Sevendust? Or do I see Middle Class Rut / Crash Kings? Whichever I choose, I'm sure it will be yet another great night at Summerfest!
Last night was a floater night. I floated from stage to stage catching several different bands. I started with Here Come the Mummies at 8pm. They were at Summerfest last year and were a lot of fun. They didn't disappoint this year either. All dressed up like mummies, they play a lot of fun songs that have adult undertones to the lyrics. Good time for sure. I didn't stay for the entire set. Instead I went over to the Rock Stage to catch a little bit of Pop Evil. I saw them a couple years ago at The Rave. They look and sound like a band lost from the 80's but maybe with a bit more of a modern metal edge. When I first walked up on the stage, the guitarist was in the middle of a long guitar solo, something you don't see often from bands nowadays. From there I went and caught the Division BMX Stunt Team. I know it's not a band, but these kids are amazing. My friends and I were into BMX trick riding and skateboarding when we were younger. Were weren't nearly as good as these kids though. Watching the show reminded me of when my friends and I used to watch and hang out with the Mountain Dew GT Trick team back in the 80's. I think we all aspired to be as good as these kids, but just didn't have it in us. Fun times for sure.
Moving on from the stunt team, I caught a few songs from Kansas, including Carry On Wayward Son. Bands like Kansas, Styx, and REO Speedwagon don't endure lengthy careers by being terrible performers. They all still put on great shows some 30 years later. After singing Carry On Wayward Son, I left to check out Michael Franti. Not necessarily my preferred type of music, but it was good. Stage was packed. Speaking of packed stages, the 102.1 stage was insanely packed with people wanting to see Edward Sharpe and teh Magnetic Zeros. I'm not even sure who they are.
I have added pictures from the last couple of days. Check out my earlier posts for the link.
Tonight is a flip of the coin night. Do I see Dropkick Murphys? Do I see Sevendust? Or do I see Middle Class Rut / Crash Kings? Whichever I choose, I'm sure it will be yet another great night at Summerfest!
Thursday, July 7, 2011
Maybe I'm A Dreamer
Maybe I'm misunderstood. Maybe you're not seeing, the side of me you should. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the only one. Maybe I'm just out of touch. Maybe I've just had enough. Maybe it's time to change, and leave it all behind........Great lyrics from Sick Puppies.
Before I get to the recap of last night at Summerfest, let me first make an announcement... THE STREAK IS OVER!!! I had a personal streak of 20 consecutive days at Summerfest that began in 2009. This news is bittersweet. It was really weird not going on Tuesday. I felt like I should have been there. Nearly got the shakes. So a new streak began last night. Summerfest is apparently my drug of choice and I need my fix.
I was back at Summerfest last night. The day/night began with a stop over at the M&I Classic Rock stage to briefly check out Billy Bon Scott, an AC/DC tribute band. While they may have sounded like AC/DC, they certainly didn't look like them. Headed over to the Rock Stage where Sick Puppies were signing autographs. We got their signatures and met them. We were fortunate to get the band to take a picture with us. We wished them well and shook their hands. Well, all except Emma, the bass player. She is obviously a germaphobe. She didn't want to shake anyone's hands and barely touched fists, similar to Howie Mandel. She's still Hot!! At the Rock Stage, SOiL was playing. This is the 4th time I've seen them and the 3rd or 4th different singer. According to Wikipedia, the current singer, Jordan, is listed as a former member and it also says that the original singer Ryan McCombs (Who left the band to join Drowning Pool) was rejoining SOiL. Even if that were true, I'm not sure that's a wise move on his part. After their set, I met the band and had pictures taken with them. SOiL isn't a bad band. In fact, I like many of their songs. I just don't know how successful they will be if they keep changing singers. As much as the drummer is the heartbeat of a band, a singer gives the band an identity. When you change singers, you often lose continuity and momentum. Journey is a good example. They still tour as Journey, but I don't think they are the same band without Steve Perry. I would say the same thing about Van Halen, which was a different band with David Lee Roth then they were with Sammy Hagar. Fortunately in that scenario, both of those versions of Van Halen were successful. Back to last night...
Went over to the U.S. Cellular Connection stage and sat through a few songs from Fools for Rowan. Walked around some more and again stopped at the U.S. Cellular Connection stage for a few songs from The Lifeline. Nothing special from these two bands, but thought I would mention them.
Finally made our way back over to the Rock Stage and sat down for Me Talk Pretty. They had a female singer. She was from Romania and had a sexy little accent. I met her afterwards. The band wasn't anything special, though she did have a good voice. Then the Sick Puppies took the stage and proceed to rock our faces off. From beginning to the end, an absolutely fantastic show. They played quite a few songs from their first couple of albums as well as several from their newest album. They even threw in a cover of Cee Lo Green. Awesome! Oh man, Emma can definitely rock the bass!! She's amazing...and did I mention she was hot?! She plucks the strings with her fingers rather than with a pick. Makes me wonder how many bass players use a pick or not. I'll have to pay attention to that from now on.
Four more days of Summerfest. I'm still not sure I'll go tonight. The lineups this year are definitely not as good as previous years. I was spoiled in 2010 when there was at least one band I wanted to see every night. Most of the bands tonight are ones that I've already seen before or just not interested in. Possibilities include Here Come the Mummies (saw them last year...lot of fun), Pop Evil (not impressed), or Finger Eleven (messed up their own songs a couple years ago). We'll see what happens. Rock on!
Before I get to the recap of last night at Summerfest, let me first make an announcement... THE STREAK IS OVER!!! I had a personal streak of 20 consecutive days at Summerfest that began in 2009. This news is bittersweet. It was really weird not going on Tuesday. I felt like I should have been there. Nearly got the shakes. So a new streak began last night. Summerfest is apparently my drug of choice and I need my fix.
I was back at Summerfest last night. The day/night began with a stop over at the M&I Classic Rock stage to briefly check out Billy Bon Scott, an AC/DC tribute band. While they may have sounded like AC/DC, they certainly didn't look like them. Headed over to the Rock Stage where Sick Puppies were signing autographs. We got their signatures and met them. We were fortunate to get the band to take a picture with us. We wished them well and shook their hands. Well, all except Emma, the bass player. She is obviously a germaphobe. She didn't want to shake anyone's hands and barely touched fists, similar to Howie Mandel. She's still Hot!! At the Rock Stage, SOiL was playing. This is the 4th time I've seen them and the 3rd or 4th different singer. According to Wikipedia, the current singer, Jordan, is listed as a former member and it also says that the original singer Ryan McCombs (Who left the band to join Drowning Pool) was rejoining SOiL. Even if that were true, I'm not sure that's a wise move on his part. After their set, I met the band and had pictures taken with them. SOiL isn't a bad band. In fact, I like many of their songs. I just don't know how successful they will be if they keep changing singers. As much as the drummer is the heartbeat of a band, a singer gives the band an identity. When you change singers, you often lose continuity and momentum. Journey is a good example. They still tour as Journey, but I don't think they are the same band without Steve Perry. I would say the same thing about Van Halen, which was a different band with David Lee Roth then they were with Sammy Hagar. Fortunately in that scenario, both of those versions of Van Halen were successful. Back to last night...
Went over to the U.S. Cellular Connection stage and sat through a few songs from Fools for Rowan. Walked around some more and again stopped at the U.S. Cellular Connection stage for a few songs from The Lifeline. Nothing special from these two bands, but thought I would mention them.
Finally made our way back over to the Rock Stage and sat down for Me Talk Pretty. They had a female singer. She was from Romania and had a sexy little accent. I met her afterwards. The band wasn't anything special, though she did have a good voice. Then the Sick Puppies took the stage and proceed to rock our faces off. From beginning to the end, an absolutely fantastic show. They played quite a few songs from their first couple of albums as well as several from their newest album. They even threw in a cover of Cee Lo Green. Awesome! Oh man, Emma can definitely rock the bass!! She's amazing...and did I mention she was hot?! She plucks the strings with her fingers rather than with a pick. Makes me wonder how many bass players use a pick or not. I'll have to pay attention to that from now on.
Four more days of Summerfest. I'm still not sure I'll go tonight. The lineups this year are definitely not as good as previous years. I was spoiled in 2010 when there was at least one band I wanted to see every night. Most of the bands tonight are ones that I've already seen before or just not interested in. Possibilities include Here Come the Mummies (saw them last year...lot of fun), Pop Evil (not impressed), or Finger Eleven (messed up their own songs a couple years ago). We'll see what happens. Rock on!
Monday, July 4, 2011
We Live On Front Porches and Swing Life Away
No foreplay today...no prelude... Rise Against is one of the absolute best live bands I have seen in a long time!! They continually deliver a no frills, powerful performance every time!! Absolutely amazing!!! They get on stage and punch you right in the face!! Awesome!!!
Now that that is out of the way, here's what the rest of Day 5 was like...
We headed down early mainly because I wanted to be sure we had decent seats for Rise Against. It's a good thing we did too. The stage filled up fast. Before finding a seat, we stopped at the Potawatomi Bingo Casino Stage and Pavillion and caught a little bit from Berlin. Sure, you know who she is. She's the one who sings that song made famous from the movie Top Gun..."Take My Breath Away". Well, I didn't stick around to hear her sing it, but my friends did. After arriving at the Miller Lite stage, a girl singing group called Pretty Pretty performed. They were somewhat scantily clad and sung covers of pop songs. After them was a group called Shinobi Ninja. Terrible. At first it was just a dj on stage. Then he was joined by a couple of guitarists, a black female rapper, and a white rapper. It was a crazy mix of metal guitars and rap lyrics with funky beats.
At 8pm, Flatfoot 56 took the stage. These guys were a lot of fun. Great Irish punk band complete with bagpipes. I really enjoyed their energy and music. If you like Irish punk bands, check these guys out.
I've already mentioned the night's headliner, Rise Against...but they are most certainly worth mentioning again!! Amazing band!!!
Summerfest is closed on July 4th but will reopen on the 5th. My attendance is still up in the air at this point.
Oh yeah, I believe I mentioned that I would share pictures.
Now that that is out of the way, here's what the rest of Day 5 was like...
We headed down early mainly because I wanted to be sure we had decent seats for Rise Against. It's a good thing we did too. The stage filled up fast. Before finding a seat, we stopped at the Potawatomi Bingo Casino Stage and Pavillion and caught a little bit from Berlin. Sure, you know who she is. She's the one who sings that song made famous from the movie Top Gun..."Take My Breath Away". Well, I didn't stick around to hear her sing it, but my friends did. After arriving at the Miller Lite stage, a girl singing group called Pretty Pretty performed. They were somewhat scantily clad and sung covers of pop songs. After them was a group called Shinobi Ninja. Terrible. At first it was just a dj on stage. Then he was joined by a couple of guitarists, a black female rapper, and a white rapper. It was a crazy mix of metal guitars and rap lyrics with funky beats.
At 8pm, Flatfoot 56 took the stage. These guys were a lot of fun. Great Irish punk band complete with bagpipes. I really enjoyed their energy and music. If you like Irish punk bands, check these guys out.
I've already mentioned the night's headliner, Rise Against...but they are most certainly worth mentioning again!! Amazing band!!!
Summerfest is closed on July 4th but will reopen on the 5th. My attendance is still up in the air at this point.
Oh yeah, I believe I mentioned that I would share pictures.
Happy Independence Day!!
Sunday, July 3, 2011
The Best Is Yet To Come
Yesterday's Summerfest schedule wasn't anything special. I nearly didn't go down, but since a couple friends came into town, we went. Some of the bands performing last night were Maroon 5, The Airborne Toxic Event, and Hinder. We walked around the grounds for a bit of people watching and enjoying some of the fine frothy beverages. The Miller Lite stage where Maroon 5 was to play was already packed. Apparently they were the most popular act playing last night. We made our way around to the Rock Stage and watched Greek Fire. I've only heard one of their songs on the radio recently and liked it. They were good and I would see them again. May have to look into picking up their album.
After Greek Fire finished, we stopped at the Cascio Interstate Music Groove Stage. This is a smaller stage settled in between the Rock Stage and the U.S. Cellular Connection Stage that showcases a lot of local and regional bands. We watched a band called The Invaders. They were kind of an Irish punk band with a sound similar to Rancid. I think the crowd at this small stage was bigger than the crowd for Red Jumpsuit Apparatus.
We moved back over to the Rock Stage and stood in the back for Hinder. I'm not a huge fan of Hinder, but they sure put on a good show. The differences in performances between a band like Hinder and Red Jumpsuit Apparatus are like night and day. I hate to keep harping on RJA, but they really were terrible and need to polish their live performances significantly. We eventually made our way into the back of the bleacher section probably about 10 rows in as people started to leave even before they came out for their encore, Get Stoned. Even though I'm not a huge fan, it was a good rock show. It was also unusual that I nearly got a drum stick all the way in the back. The drummer really chucked it.
I've debated on when I was going to post pictures. Maybe tomorrow I'll share pictures from the first weekend. Stay tuned.
Today is one of the Summerfest days I have been looking forward to most...Rise Against! They are such a great band and always an awesome live show!
Saturday, July 2, 2011
New Songs and Some Old Songs Too
Day 3 at Summerfest turned out to be less than stellar. I had a feeling going in that the band we wanted to see wasn't going to improve on past performances and I was right. Down at the grounds about 5:30ish and headed over to the Miller Lite stage. There at 6pm was a pop cover band called Your Villain, My Hero. Saw them last year as we waited for The Offspring. The cover pop songs from Ke$ha, Katy Perry, Madonna, the Black Eyed Peas and many other. Very entertaining and probably the best performance of the night. Of course it doesn't hurt that they have two hot women, one singing and one on bass guitar. Very nice!
After their set ended, we headed over to the Rock Stage for Civil Twilight. Saw them last year and enjoyed their set. Another great show last night. Their most popular song is one that was featured in the tv show One Tree Hill. Those of you that watch the show (I don't) may know what I'm talking about. The stage was about half empty and thought it was a bit strange, but looking back on the night it was more likely a foreshadowing.
The headliner for the Rock Stage was The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. Now here is a band whose albums are really good, but their live performances have been disappointing to say the least. I saw them twice in 2009, once at The Rave downstairs and once at Summerfest. The downstairs stage at The Rave is small and the acoustics aren't great so at that time I chalked up the lackluster performance to that. At Summerfest 2009, the stage was jam packed. We quickly realized that most of the people were there to see Owl City and Relient K. It was quite obvious that the lead singer had voice problems. They maybe played six songs and were off the stage by 11pm. It was sad. So this year, we decided to give them one more shot. Again, I really like their albums. They take the stage and it didn't take long to realize that this guy is terrible. I'm not going to say the whole band is terrible, but they really need to find a new singer. Makes me wonder how authentic his voice is on the albums. He has no idea how to perform and they had no business being scheduled as a headliner. Civil Twilight should have been the headliner. Way too much talking in between songs. At one point, he mentioned that they had a guest guitarist, some 17 year old kid who loved RJA and wanted to play with them. The kids was pretty good, but that they should have been doing was auditioning for new singers. Probably could have picked someone out of the crowd. As it is, The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus have been put into the same category as 12 Stones...really good cd quality bands but absolutely terrible live.
So after being bored through four or five songs, we decided to leave and head over to another stage. Attempting to walk by the Miller Lite stage, we realized why the Rock Stage was empty. Everyone was watching Girl Talk. Even the Harley-Davidson stage was packed for Los Lonely Boys. Third Eye Blind was playing at the new Briggs & Stratton Big Backyard stage, but we were heading over to the M&I Classic Rock stage to check out Styx. That stage was jam packed too. I don't think we could have gotten withing 500 yards of the stage. Caught the last few songs of their set including Miss America and Come Sail Away.
A lackluster night at Summerfest, but always a fun time. People watching is fantastic. Live music is always awesome! Tonight I'm most likely heading back down to Summerfest. This will be Day 4 for me and Summerfest has only been open for four days. My streak of consecutive days at Summerfest goes back to 2009 and stands at 18. My friends are trying to entice me into going to all eleven days again this year. I'm not 100% certain that is going to happen, though I won't rule it out just yet. Options for tonight include Maroon 5 and Hinder. I guess I'll find out when I get there. Rock on!
After their set ended, we headed over to the Rock Stage for Civil Twilight. Saw them last year and enjoyed their set. Another great show last night. Their most popular song is one that was featured in the tv show One Tree Hill. Those of you that watch the show (I don't) may know what I'm talking about. The stage was about half empty and thought it was a bit strange, but looking back on the night it was more likely a foreshadowing.
The headliner for the Rock Stage was The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. Now here is a band whose albums are really good, but their live performances have been disappointing to say the least. I saw them twice in 2009, once at The Rave downstairs and once at Summerfest. The downstairs stage at The Rave is small and the acoustics aren't great so at that time I chalked up the lackluster performance to that. At Summerfest 2009, the stage was jam packed. We quickly realized that most of the people were there to see Owl City and Relient K. It was quite obvious that the lead singer had voice problems. They maybe played six songs and were off the stage by 11pm. It was sad. So this year, we decided to give them one more shot. Again, I really like their albums. They take the stage and it didn't take long to realize that this guy is terrible. I'm not going to say the whole band is terrible, but they really need to find a new singer. Makes me wonder how authentic his voice is on the albums. He has no idea how to perform and they had no business being scheduled as a headliner. Civil Twilight should have been the headliner. Way too much talking in between songs. At one point, he mentioned that they had a guest guitarist, some 17 year old kid who loved RJA and wanted to play with them. The kids was pretty good, but that they should have been doing was auditioning for new singers. Probably could have picked someone out of the crowd. As it is, The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus have been put into the same category as 12 Stones...really good cd quality bands but absolutely terrible live.
So after being bored through four or five songs, we decided to leave and head over to another stage. Attempting to walk by the Miller Lite stage, we realized why the Rock Stage was empty. Everyone was watching Girl Talk. Even the Harley-Davidson stage was packed for Los Lonely Boys. Third Eye Blind was playing at the new Briggs & Stratton Big Backyard stage, but we were heading over to the M&I Classic Rock stage to check out Styx. That stage was jam packed too. I don't think we could have gotten withing 500 yards of the stage. Caught the last few songs of their set including Miss America and Come Sail Away.
A lackluster night at Summerfest, but always a fun time. People watching is fantastic. Live music is always awesome! Tonight I'm most likely heading back down to Summerfest. This will be Day 4 for me and Summerfest has only been open for four days. My streak of consecutive days at Summerfest goes back to 2009 and stands at 18. My friends are trying to entice me into going to all eleven days again this year. I'm not 100% certain that is going to happen, though I won't rule it out just yet. Options for tonight include Maroon 5 and Hinder. I guess I'll find out when I get there. Rock on!
Friday, July 1, 2011
Riding the Storm Out
As I mentioned yesterday, there wasn't a band that I definitely wanted to see last night, so I saw a few of them. Normally I show up and hang out at one stage, but last night I spent time at a few. Once there, I walked down to the newly renovated Briggs & Stratton Big Backyard stage at the South end of the grounds. It's really nice. This area is also where they are serving the new Summerfest beer, Big Gig IPA, which is brewed by Tenth and Black Beer Company, a division of MillerCoors focused on craft and imports. Very good! Made my way over to Jo Jo's Martini Lounge for a tasty martini. Have to visit Jo Jo's at least once every Summerfest. I then headed over to catch some of Neon Trees. The stage was packed, but that was expected. I saw them last year anyways. After a few songs, I made my way over to the M&I Classic Rock Stage to catch some of REO Speedwagon's set. They may be getting up there in age, but they still sing and play really well. Heard a few of the favorites including Keep On Loving You and You Can't Fight This Feeling. After just a few songs from REO, I went to the Miller Lite stage to catch Better Then Ezra. Saw them two years ago. They were good then and they were good last night. They really put on a fantastic performance! Very entertaining! Their drummer is amazing!! During one of their songs they slipped into a cover of Kanye West, who was performing last night also. Another great night!
This morning we went golfing. We normally get out there at least once during Summerfest. I'm not so sure it was the best idea though. There was a heat advisory and if it weren't for the breezy conditions it may have affected us more. As it was, the golf wasn't that great, but we had a great time.
Tonight is Day 3. On the schedule to see tonight is The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. They were at Summerfest last year and didn't even finish their set because the lead singer had voice problems. So I'm giving them one more chance. I really like their music, but their live performances leave something to be desired. If they bomb, then I may skip over to see Anberlin, Styx, or one of the other stages.
This morning we went golfing. We normally get out there at least once during Summerfest. I'm not so sure it was the best idea though. There was a heat advisory and if it weren't for the breezy conditions it may have affected us more. As it was, the golf wasn't that great, but we had a great time.
Tonight is Day 3. On the schedule to see tonight is The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. They were at Summerfest last year and didn't even finish their set because the lead singer had voice problems. So I'm giving them one more chance. I really like their music, but their live performances leave something to be desired. If they bomb, then I may skip over to see Anberlin, Styx, or one of the other stages.
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